Nial Fuller’s 71% Drawdown in the AxiTrader Competition

nial fuller axitrader competition 2ndskiesforex

A former student of Nial Fuller who is now in my price action course asked me about Nial winning the AxiTrader competition.

I recently heard about it, and on the surface, it looked like he did some ok trading.

But with all things Nial Fuller, once you dig into the details, a completely different picture emerges. And 5 minutes of looking into this further confirmed my suspicion.

Now I’m not going to talk about the fact he and AxiTrader are business partners, or the fact AxiTrader actually allowed their business partners to join vs. pure clients.

I’ll leave that to y’all to decide on.

But here is my summary of why Nial Fuller & AxiTrader represent everything bad about the trading industry below.

Only Nial Fuller would:

  1. enter a trading competition with the absolute smallest acct possible (5k)
  2. trade less than 10 times (by his own admission) for 6 weeks
  3. completely throw risk and money management out of the window by having a 71.4% drawdown over 3 days!
  4. another 50+% drawdown over another 3 day period!
  5. call his risk and money management system ‘sophisticated’ (see below)nial fuller gambling axitrader competition 2ndskiesforex
  6. and then brag about it

And for proof, below is an image which shows you the details Nial forgot to mention about his heavy 71+% and 50+% drawdowns.

nial fuller massive drawdown axitrader competition 2ndskiesforex

 

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who on Aug 20th (2015) was bullish on the GBPUSD lauding his bullish fakey setup (commentary below).

nial fuller fakey setup fails 2ndskiesforex

Now make sure to remember the chart below & attached to this commentary.

nial fuller fakey pin bar trade fails 2ndskiesforex

Remember, this is a buy signal in line with his bullish views on the market.

Why am mentioning all this?

Because the same pin bar fakey setup Nial Fuller was lauding above, magically a few months later was a trade that Sucked Traders in and spit them out like used chewing gum (in his own words – see below).

nial fuller fakey pin bar loses 600 pips 2ndskiesforex

So which is it Nial?

Is this a great fakey pin bar trade that you were bullish on, or a ‘classic’ false break that ‘suckered traders’ (like yourself)?

And will you (ahem) Nial Fuller make some ‘editorial’ adjustments to your above article now that the hypocrisy is fully on display?

Inquiring minds want to know.

EDITORS NOTE (Jun 1 5.18pm EST)

After an editorial review, I realized I made a mistake. While Nial Fuller was bullish after the fakey pin bar combo that failed for 600 pips, the ‘false break that suckered traders in’ he was referring to was the break of the support level down below. My mistake and I apologize for the error.

BUT….

In a strange twist of irony, even when I’m wrong about Nial, I’m right. How so you say?

A look at this commentary of the false break that ‘suckered’ traders in ironically reveals the same thing. That he was ‘obviously bearish’ after the break of the key support level and looking to sell (see below – 3rd line).

nial bearish sept 7 commentary and looking to sell

To top this off with a cherry – after the market formed the famous false break, he was still bearish and would consider selling (see below as well).

nial fuller bearish after false break suckers traders in 2ndskiesforex

So different trade – same result. He’s bearish, but later, he wants to point out any of you that were short were ‘suckers’.

Regardless, this should give you a good idea about Nial Fuller.

Along the lines of marketers and all things bad for the industry, only AxiTrader would:

  1. invest $1MM in someone who threw money and risk management out the window
  2. with a 5K acct
  3. over 6 weeks and do < 10 trades
  4. produced a 71.4% drawdown + a 50+% drawdown

and say ‘YES, I WANT TO INVEST $1MM IN THAT GUY.”

Brilliant!

Now ask yourself the following question:

Who is Nial trying to attract with this promotion?

Is he going after the veteran trader? Is he going after someone who’s had a few years of experience and knows what is a reasonable return on risk?

Or is he going after the newbie trader who will only see the % gain and dream of tripling their account? And what kind of clients are AxiTrader going after by promoting results and performances like this?

I’m guessing you can figure out the answer (newbie traders who wouldn’t see the difference).

nial fuller and axitrader marketing to newbies 2ndskiesforex

And this is why Nial Fuller and AxiTrader represent everything wrong with the industry. They talk about % gains, but fail to mention the risks it took to get said results.

In fact there was no mention of the risks or the downside. Only upside!  Those don’t make for the best marketing materials. Nor do they make the return seem so impressive now do they?

They certainly don’t speak of a ‘sophisticated’ risk management system. But you won’t hear that from Nial Fuller or AxiTrader. And that is why they are bad for the industry (IMO).

Nial Fuller & AxiTrader are targeting newbie traders in the hopes they will open up an account playing on the idea ‘you too can triple your acct’.

But one last question naturally arises, which is:

When does making less than 10 trades over a 6 week period represent anything about one’s skill set or ability?

To put this in perspective:

-would you understand a basketball player’s strengths and weaknesses over 10 shots sparsely taken over 6 weeks?

-would you know what kind of golfer someone was by watching them hit the golf ball less than 10 times over 6 weeks?

-would you feel comfortable putting $1MM behind a poker player whom has only played 10 hands over 6 weeks?

Let me know on which planet or universe you think this is a good idea. Yet this is what Nial Fuller & AxiTrader would want you to believe.

I know this article is controversial. I know it may irk some feathers. But I’m willing to bet many will cheer my sentiments/opinions on this as a key topic that has plagued the education industry.

Do you agree with what I’ve said above or not? If so, why not?

I’ll look forward to your comments below.

Buddhist, Trader and Philanthropist

I'm Chris Capre, Founder of 2ndSkiesForex. I help traders of all levels change the way they think, trade and perform. As a professional trader, I specialize in trading price action. As a teacher, my passion lies in showing you how to re-wire your brain for successful trading. Want to improve your edge right now? Visit my Price Action Course page.

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  • brian gosper

    RIGHT ON CHRIS!!! I gladly admit that I once was a sucker for scam artists like Fuller. But I have “grown up” and reading this crap makes me so angry about the nonsense they peddle and the dreams they crush. Thanks again for being the adult and write a thoughtful and careful rebuttal. I hope it spreads far and wide.

    • Chris Capre

      Hello Brian,

      Yeah you are not the first to convey this expression, and sadly won’t be the last who feel like Nial Fuller scammed them. It’s easy to peddle dreams – far better marketing. Nobody wants to hear it will take longer and more work than you think up front.

      But am glad you supported this and for sharing your sentiments.

  • Lars

    Well, you set my first impression right, Chris. Then I thought, well, to continue trading after a 71% draw down takes some disipline, but of course with such a small account and being a partner of AxiTrader and all, it’s a no-brainer to see thru the scam….Take care Chris:-)

    • Chris Capre

      Hello Lars – yeah nothing to lose after a 71% drawdown. Ironically he never mentioned it ahead of time, which is convenient. If he loses, nothing is lost as he put no skin in the game ahead of time.

      Shows the lack of confidence in his trading IMO. And yes, the partnership with Axi is a little off to say the least.

  • Osama Afzal

    I really liked what you had mentioned. It shows how much active and professional are you with your work by keeping an eye on them and revealing their cheap marketing strategy to trap people towards them. Cheers

    • Chris Capre

      Hello Osama,

      Indeed – Nial Fuller uses all kinds of cheap marketing tactics to trap newbies in so glad you noticed.

  • David

    Well said ,a few years ago I nearly fell in the trap of buying his carbon copy so called price action course.
    Lucky I did my research..

    • Chris Capre

      Yeah – Nial Fuller’s course is pretty carbon copy. Good thing you went in another direction!

  • Kirk

    Chris, would you agree that such competition is never a good way to measure performance? If there should be a competition, it has to be of a longer duration (1 to 2 years) in order to really seek out the good traders.

    • Chris Capre

      Some very good points Kirk. First off, I think competitions like this by and large are useless.

      They are for super small periods of time which represent very little. In this case, 3 mos is nothing in the life-cycle of a trader. On avg, 30% of all traders will be profitable in a quarter, but being profitable for 2-4 quarters in any year is much harder.

      That plus competitions really create an artificial trading environment wherein traders are using really bad habits (i.e. with risk and money management) all to win the competition.

      It’s a catch 22 because if it’s for a short period of time, it means very little as anyone can win. But if it’s over a long period of time, then you wire in bad habits.

      So neither is really desirable, unless you want to sucker in newbies.

      I’d say at a minimum a competition (if there is going to be one) should be for a year and that there should be a max risk per trade for every participant. Otherwise someone could risk most of their acct on one trade and win it all, yet that wouldn’t represent any skill in trading.

      Just my thoughts….

  • francisco lopez

    From overnight Nial wins prestigious competition ?? but who organizes ??? FXCM no..AXITRADER … !!
    Nial it makes one or two trades in a week ?? …
    On the other hand I could see inconsistencies in certain explanations as in bars fakey ….
    That in my country has a name and we all know … ) )

    • Chris Capre

      Indeed Francisco – in many countries this has a name. Pretty shady IMO.

  • Mark Chahal

    Hi Chris,

    Funny thing was I saw your course first. Than saw Nial’s. I ended up joining him (ignoring my intuition and went for the bling). Few months in I was like.. “What the EFF?? ”

    I remember lying down on a bed looking at EURUSD and found a pin bar at a perfect location with what … confluence if I remember?? (so happy now that the old habits are gone), took that trade, went no where with it. Didn’t made sense contextually. Trade went into profit eventually but the next trade came by after a few weeks. Lost my skills… restart.

    Meaning of Fakey by the way = Filthy. Annoying. Killing. Eroding. Yucky.

    *** London seminar .. Alex and I. A tribute to his work and yours via Trading Sweatshirts 😉

    • Chris Capre

      Ha – too funny about the FAKEY.

      Yeah, many people go for the bling. Then they regret it later.

      And yes, you won’t build your skills trading his way.

  • Ivan

    Great article Chris. I remember the day I started going through your course and saw the light after sitting in the weeds in Fullofit’s course. Funny thing is I still get his emails and I laugh because he peddles his ‘fakey’ set up as a proprietary set up and only he teaches this one candlestick pattern which is why you need to join his course. Lol well the ‘fakey’ is in actuality called the Hikkake which was discovered by a gentleman named Daniel Chesler whom published this pattern with rules to trading it many years before ‘Maverick’. Again this is another lie by deNial Fullofit selling you a bag of goods that are empty promises which promise to make your pockets empty.

    • Chris Capre

      HA – he really says he’s the only one who teaches the Fakey/Hikkake pattern? Dear lord, he just can’t help himself but lie all to bring in those unsuspecting newbies.
      Hopefully this article and your comment will shed a greater light on it.
      But thanks for sharing your experience as a former member of his.

  • Nick

    You hit the nail right on head there Chris!! I’m a 2S APA course member and before becoming one I came very close to paying for Nial Fullers course. A conversation I had with him over the phone when I called him regarding his course fee is what stopped me from joining. It was when I told him I was a newbie and my goal was to become a forex intraday trader, he straight out told me in a very negative and disempowering tone that trading on an intraday basis was a complete waste of time as any price action occurring between key levels and signals that he teaches and “APPARENTLY” profits from is nothing more than just noise and to avoid even looking at it. After that phone call I did some more research and then immediately came across 2SFX. After reading your bio and watching your videos I signed up as an 2S APA member without any hesitation and it has since been the best decision I’ve made in my journey to becoming a successful FX trader. I salute you Chris for putting this article out there so that any newbies, inexperienced traders and anyone blinded by Fullers trading methods like I once was can see just how fictional his ways of trading really are.

    Thank you & Well done Chris!

    – Nick

    • Chris Capre

      Hola Nick – yeah, he seems to think day trading is the devil and something that shouldn’t be done. Clearly he doesn’t know many professional traders, as many of them are making their living every day doing that.

      I’m glad to hear you found working with us a good decision.

      And thanks for the salute on this as it was definitely a risk putting an article out there like this as many traders have been blinded by Nial Fuller’s strategies and rookie approach to the markets.

  • steffen

    Can I know what broker do you use? After know this I consider looking another Fx reliable broker.

    • Chris Capre

      Hola Steffen,

      I currently have most of my funds with SaxoBank. But some others I’d recommend would be FXCM, FxPro and Gain Capital. Hope this helps.

  • Harry G

    Hi Chris,
    Your speculation is spot on and resonates with what I had in mind, I never bothered to dive into the details to find out the risk management of his performance, I would’ve thought Nial Fullers would automatically publish the statistics in his article if the title was well earned by him but I guess it’s the devil in the details that he was reluctant to share with the public, the way how he only highlights the raw return rather than the return in terms of risks involved is exact the poison what the newbies are seeking after, I guess anyone who dreams about overnight success with minimal effort or years of sweat and tears learning from the market, gets what they deserve one way or the other, unless they bump into someone who is mindful and with utmost integrity like yourself. I’m a long term follower of your methodology in trading and want to express my gratitude one more time here.

    • Chris Capre

      Yep – the devil is in the details when it comes to Nial Fuller. You can’t mention the drawdown if you want to sucker in newbies who dream of tripling their acct in a few months.

      But thanks for being a long time member – tis appreciated.

  • Mark Chahal

    Not sure how to reply back or append to my comment but here is what I found additional.

    How often do I have to trade?
    There is no set frequency you are required to trade. The competition is open to any trading style and traders are welcome to trade as frequently or infrequently as they wish. The winner will be determined by a combination of profitability, return on investment, drawdown analysis and strategy implementation.

    What ever Axitrader is on about is definitely shady OR they themselves are not being honest OR their analyst is a high school dropout. If they see a winner is a 71% drawdown contestant, than I feel sorry for them.

    • Chris Capre

      Whoa – very interesting find. I thought it would have been purely based upon % return. But if it was based upon drawdown analysis as well – that makes it more interesting.

  • Avanish

    I am glad somebody finally scratched the surface and digged into the details.I too was suspicious when i saw Nial Fuller winning this competition.But i doubt if AxiTrader will ever give him 1 million $ to trade with these risky approach.This competition was more of a marketing gimmick to lure newbies.And the tragedy is every other broker is involved in such ‘short-term’ trading competitions including the likes of FXCM,FxPro & Oanda.

    • Chris Capre

      Yeah the details paint a different picture when you look at them. Pretty crazy AxiTrader would give people money with those kinds of drawdowns

  • Marcus

    Hi Chris.

    I agree 100%. Why is that… I tripped over the ‘news’ of winning the competition by NF last week. I looked at the news, read the percentage win and the timeline of the competition AND at the hosting company. Then I had problems to stop shaking from with laughter. There wehe no need for me to kook deeper . Everybody who knows the ‘idea’ and ‘teaching’ of NF was able to see the idiocy of the whole thing. But he is able to catch the newbies and to make his money with this kind of promotion. But every trader who wants to learn, should run as fast as possible.

    You have evplained very well

    • Chris Capre

      Hopefully the newer traders or ones who have some experience will run the opposite direction.

  • Lars

    Hi Chris,
    Maybe I’m missing out something here, but how could Nial come out with a 369% return from <10 trades in 6 weeks? Is the figure is a fake?
    Another thing of no concern to this discussion: Very few brokers offer FX options,
    Saxo Bank is one but they are pretty expensive I hear. I assume you are hedging
    you FX positions with options, so why is so few brokers offering FXO's?
    Lars

    • Chris Capre

      Hello Lars,

      Simply put, it’s gambling. You could easily go into any casino, throw huge portions of money on red or black, hit a few and walk out with a ton of money. It’s very hit or miss with just a few trades over 6 weeks. That is why it represents very little. A year of trading would be a different story, but 6 weeks and < 10 trades doesn’t represent anything. RE: FXOptions That is another subject (not in line with this discussion). But you can email me on this.

      • Jimmy

        Hi Chris,

        Can you please do a post on FX Options? I am looking to open an account with Saxo due to the availability of those instruments. Thanks in advance :)

  • Bilal

    Hi Chris, I know you don’t take criticism too well but i will play devils advocate here. I completely understand where you coming from but what I want to highlight here is that atleast he took part in a competition and showed his account. Not many educators out there willing to put their neck on the line.

    • Chris Capre

      Interesting you say I don’t take criticism well. You’re one of the first to mention this. In fact many people have joined simply because they said I took criticism well.

      But regarding your point – Nial Fuller didn’t put his neck on the line at all. He never mentioned he was in the competition ahead of time. There is no risk in this (by not saying anything ahead of time), because if he loses, then there is no risk and he never needs to mention it. But if he wins, then he can brag about it.

      So there was no ‘putting his neck on the line’ there now was there?

      And what does entering into a few months competition really prove? 3 months and < 10 trades is nothing in the life-cycle of a trader. So not much of a representation here. But thanks for sharing your sentiments.

  • Ashley

    In a trading competition, you can do what you like…

    • Chris Capre

      This would be what we call a ‘rhetorical’ statement, e.g. obvious.

  • SpacePip

    Lol, this is so funny.
    I pretty much thought the same.

    I was laughing hard when I first saw this indicent on twitter

    • Chris Capre

      Indeed – many a traders thought the same and emailed me about it.

  • WYD

    Coincidentally when I first got to know Nial Fuller was the winner of the Axi competition, I immediately thought of you. So I am glad you wrote this article. As Axi long time client, I feel disgusted they let their business partner joined the competition against the other retail traders. Where’s Axi’s integrity? I don’t even think he is ‘trading’ in fact this is pure GAMBLING with this so called ‘sophiscated’ money management. Now it makes me wonder should i stay with Axi or move on.

    • Chris Capre

      Hello WYD – yeah I’d be not so happy with Axi after this. And yes, Nial Fuller was gambling.

      Perhaps time to look for another broker…

  • WYD

    How will I be assessed?
    To be considered for funding we expect traders to be able to demonstrate the following general conditions:

    Ability to manage leverage consistently
    Drawdowns of less than 1.5% per month for a money manager, or less than 5% per month for proprietary traders (of notionalised capital)
    Profitability
    Risk-reward, as measured by the Sharpe ratio

    Got this from the Axi Select website. Still got me wonder how Nial got chosen to be the winner of the competition.

    • Chris Capre

      Me thinks this is for the AxiSelect incubation program – not the competition. But if it is, then it’s quite confusing.

  • Mike van der Marel

    Holy crap, last year i was about to join his course. But somehow it gave me a bad vibe. The nervous interviews on YouTube, the obvious child like approach to trading were overwhelming signals this guy is not the real deal. I’m so thankful I didn’t waste my time and money on this guy and found a real mentor right here !

    • Chris Capre

      Hello Mike,

      Yes, you and many others are glad you didn’t waste your money on Nial Fuller’s course. Glad you are a part of our community.

  • Blaise Mutaru Kinyua

    Great to see such kind of articles. It’s rare to find people of influence condemn such cons. Most of the time most people get to learn about such atrocities by their own experience. But with more of such articles, more people will be saved the pain of losing cash.

    • Chris Capre

      Have to agree Blaise – hopefully people will start to wake up to this.

  • Carl

    What, we’re not talking about THE Nial Fuller, are we? The one widely regarded as “the authority” on price action trading, even if he says so himself?

    • Chris Capre

      That would be the same one. Who nobody else says it, but he certainly does.

  • quincy

    I fully agree with the fact that it was not adopted any”magical” moneymanagement trhoughout the competition. A 70% drawdown speaks for itself.

  • Sifufx

    I so clearly remember the big announcement of Fuller winning the comp.

    Thanks for a great analogy of what really went on. Very enlightening. Be closing my accounts with AXI also.

    Has anyone posted this link on his website?

    Cheers.

    • Hello Sifufx – yes, it was important to bring this information and perspective out.
      Am glad to hear you’re closing your accts with Axi as it never disclosed a major business partner of theirs was in the competition.

  • ninner

    chris, do you still trade using ichimoku??? I know i am and finding alot of success

    • Hello Ninner – yep, still do. Just recently posted a live trade video in the ichimoku course (https://2ndskiesforex.com/advanced-ichimoku-course/) for a +650 pip winner and around 100 pip stop

      Kind Regards,
      Chris

      • ninner

        good work chris, i know i just took a 800 pip winner in a pair with about 100 pip stop as well…i really like the cloud and presents good trading ops…

        kind regards,

        travis

      • Congrats Travis. Yes Ichi can offer some really big winners so glad you like it

  • Mrk Tanvir

    do u have forex managed account or signal service?

    • Hello Mrk Tanvir,

      We do not. We teach people how to trade, not fish for them.

      Kind Regards,
      Chris Capre